WARNING: This is a long post, however, we think it will make for some good conversation. So, hang in there with us. Rich from The RichHouse blog and myself KimPossible present to you, “Free Your Mind Friday!”
A lot of times, I think of things in terms of music, so doing this post made me think of two songs right off the bat. Those songs are “Wait for Love” (Luther Vandross) and “Let’s Wait a While” (Janet Jackson). Those songs lay the framework for the way it should be when dealing with the topic:
Is a man/woman willing to wait for a Christian man or woman who is still a virgin/or practicing celibacy?
The simple answer should be yes, if their mind is right. Meaning, if that person shares a similar belief system they will be more inclined to wait and honor your position. The other element that needs to exist is a positive esteem. Otherwise, drama is likely to ensue.
I have lived on both sides of the equation. I have been involved with a virgin who wanted to wait when I didn’t, and I have been the Christian man trying to remain celibate when the female didn’t share the same sentiment. There were lessons to learn in both instances. Mainly lessons about me as a person at those particular times in my life with regard to my convictions and views on sex.
Let’s break this down a bit and see if we can see things from a different vantage point. In the formative stages of a relationship all types of things are happening – neurons are sparking feelings of grandeur, hormones are raging – waiting to be quelled with a touch, and imaginations are flying to and fro about the possibilities of where love will lead. All of this happens, whether sex is enacted or not. It’s a natural part of the mating process. We have been created to respond to the opposite sex in kind, so it shouldn’t be a surprise when these feelings occur, although it doesn’t happen with everyone we meet. The fact that these emotions do take place also shouldn’t necessitate the need to act upon them. Yet, when placed in an environment where all seems right, we get offended, if even for a moment, when we are asked to forego relations because one of the parties would like to wait. Sometimes we even take it personally, but this is what we should remember. The desire to abstain -- listen to me carefully -- is not and should not be construed as a rejection of the other party. “Don’t you love me?” or “I thought we had something here,” are common responses that follow when one of the parties feel like they have been shorted. This is where positive self-esteem comes into play. The person who is free of insecurities won’t take their perspective mates need for taking a higher road as meaning something is wrong with them. We have to ask ourselves, are we mature enough and in control of our bodies enough to wait?
Many single people talk of their desire to have a mate, when the truth is they really want sex. Ask yourself. If given the opportunity to date someone who is a virgin or celibate that is adamant about waiting until marriage, would you be willing to wait? Does sex overweigh your desire for a quality mate?
There are so many directions this conversation can be taken, but I think the fact that a person – Christian or not – wanting to wait is a beautiful thing. That is the person who realizes that intimacy is a by-product of love and not the road that leads to love. What do you think?
Are you guilty of judging others that wanted to keep themselves? Are you sensitive to that topic with your friends? Do you look at people who wait as different or special? Are you the one who has waited? Maybe you can identify with the story below. Rich and KimPossible wanted to let you in on the life of someone who has waited. Let’s free our minds together.
This story is based on a true story. A single friend of mine is experiencing this in her dating relationships. I added a little to her story but it is darn close. So, let me introduce her to you. She is a 27-year-old virgin; she has never experienced dating or kissed until after college. Yes, you heard me right.
So, my fellow bloggers, what does it take for a good virgin woman to find a man that appreciates that she has waited. Peep this:
Scenario One: I went out on a date with a guy that I met at a jazz event. He was handsome and well put together. I was immediately attracted to him physically. We exchanged numbers and begin to talk on the phone and soon we began to hang out. He was 10 years older than me and his experience was way out of my league. One night we went out and had a great time. He moved in for the kiss and I became paralyzed. My hormones were racing and my panties were wet for sure. I was so tense and could not snap out of it. He immediately told me to relax but I couldn’t. I knew this could lead into somewhere I did not want it to go? I spill the beans and tell him that I had never kissed. He began to try to school me in this area and it seems cool to him that I am a virgin. In fact, he seemed bubbly about it. It almost seemed as if he was elated that he could potentially be the first to tap that. As the relationship progressed he began to talk about marriage everyday and how he was ready to settle down and how he felt like I was his wife. He also asked me how did I feel about open relationships because he was dating someone else too. He became very possessive and wanted to know where I was at all times. He was beginning to be the daddy and he thought I was the child. Needless to say I had to let that go. I am not interested in a father; I already have one of those. Why is it that this dude was so excited that I was a virgin? That was a huge turn off for me. Can you calm down please? Is it true that men prey on women like myself because they get some type of gratification for being a virgin’s “FIRST?” Is that a power trip?
Scenario Two: I played myself with this dude. He and I have been long time friends. We have had secret crushes on each other ever since I met him. The only thing that has kept us from moving forward in a relationship is that he has always been in serious relationships with other women. We are both artists so we always find ourselves in the same circle. So, I see him everywhere and we flirt like crazy. His swagger, his artistry, his style, everything about him turns me on. I am attracted to him physically and mentally; he and I can talk about anything. He has now broken up with his girlfriend and he immediately started calling me everyday. He cooked me dinner at his house and we have went out on several dates. He text-messages me every morning telling me to have a great day. Dude knows me and he knows all of this is turning me on. He knows exactly what to say to me. He already knows I am a virgin and before he broke up with his girlfriend I would talk to him about it and how hard it is out here for me. He told me good luck because he did not know any men who would wait. He said as beautiful as I am no man would want to just date me. I told him that I had never kissed either. So, he said you mean to tell me that if someone wanted to date you they wouldn’t be able to kiss you? I said yeah, he was like you are crazy. But, I respect your decision. So, we start to hang out and he is all in my personal space and we touch. I was just about to invite him to the crib when he called me one day and said “Look, let’s just continue to be friends because I am dating two other girls and let’s not get too serious.” I was pissed and bothered. Dude, are you serious? So, you were trying to break me down to see if you could hit this right? Never will you try to break me. I am a good woman. I have a lot going for me. The crazy thing is that if he would have held his cards a little closer to his chest he just may have gotten his wish because I have liked him for a very long time. He pushed all of the right buttons for me. He lured me to sleep with his chivalry and I was definitely about to lose my virginity with him.
Scenario Three: I was dating a guy who had a lot more experience than me. I was 26 when we met and he was 35. He was a well-groomed and mature individual. He was the perfect man for me. We enjoyed each other’s company. He was artsy and creative. Our dates were never dull. He took initiative and he always kept the spark going. I told him that I was virgin as I realized I was falling in love with him. He didn’t budge. It didn’t faze him at all. He informed me that he was ready to settle down and he had waited for a woman like me. He was clearly at a point in his life where he was ready to settle down. He was so patient with me. He never tried to kiss me and he respected my space when we went out. He never once made a move on me. I thought it was too good to be true. But he was consistent with me. We had known each other for quite some time before we began to date. So, I had a chance to observe his character from afar. He was definitely everything I wanted in a man, but there were a few deal breakers that kept me from taking our relationship further. I feel so crazy right now. Here I am dating men who are only interested in getting in my jeans and now I finally find the right one. I am frustrated and beginning to hate the dating scene. It is too tricky, risky, unsure, and there are definitely no promises. I am happy being single because I have a lot going for me. However, I do want to be married. It is something that I have tucked away in my heart and pushed aside so that my life wouldn’t be put on pause. But, now I compare all of my relationships to this dude I let go. Now, I am at a place where I am on the dating scene but I am always forced to come to a serious halt because none of the men I date are willing to wait like this dude was.
I am so frustrated. I need some answers.
1. Why is it that once you tell a man you are a virgin he starts to drool and it is a power struggle for him? Or what is it?
2. Why is that once a man knows that you are virgin he has to play the teacher or daddy role? Can we just go with the flow? Why do you have to teach me? Why are you so possessive? Why do you want to know where I am at all times? Especially, when you are dating someone else. I don’t owe your ASH anything!
3. Why is it that there is always one dude who steals your heart? Why did I engage in a relationship with the cat when I knew he was all about game? Why is it that I like the bad boys? If he liked me like he said he did, why couldn’t he wait? Are you dating these other women because you are getting free stuff? And you want to just be with me because you are infatuated with me? I am confused? Why call me everyday, and text me, cook for me and take me out. Why not just go and screw the other girls?
4. What are the rules? Where is the manual? Am I hoping against hope? What is the protocol for a beautiful, virgin woman like myself in dating? Is there a certain type of guy I am limited to in dating? Why am I being penalized for my personal convictions? Am I asking for the impossible? Is it that hard to date a virgin? Am I getting too emotionally involved with these dudes? Am I playing with fire by flirting and engaging in these relationships?
5. Did I fall for my prince charming because he accepted me?
32 comments:
u know wat kimpossible?
this post of urs is an interesting one.
in my opinion, a man can not love u more or less becos u are a virgin. i ve a guy frd that will always tell u that a man will always have just one thing in mind the first time he approaches u - SEX. in the process of getting his wish granted he either falls in love and want u as a person for keeps or he dosnt fall at all, his wish granted and he moves on or he loses interest in the pursuit and moves on. so its really has got nothing to do wit ur being a virgin.
u see, that a woman is a virgin at a certain age agreed is a plus to a man and naturally such man would want to be the "first".
that u are a virgin dose not make u any diff from those who aint, it only means u ve stil got one thing others have lost or given a way hence you should act and live normal i.e no special dating rules and all and plz don't let anyone make u give it up until u are fully ready to do so.
am 24 and was a virgin until i was 23 and to tell u the truth i didnt have to get special dating rules to remain in a relationship. blieve me, ones a relationship gets to the point of marriage it is almost necessary for u to 'try out' wat u are going into.....i ve heard stories of men who either are impotent, too 'small'and can hardly satisfy a woman let alone impregnate them, these men will always want a relationship that is sex free, so wat happens to the woman after marriage?
so pls forget all those talk about special relationship guides 4 virgins. if u are a virgin then u shuld always ensure that u are not found in enviroments that suggests u actually want more than u are willing to offer.
i ve so much to say kimpossible but i ve got to go back to work.
merry xmas to u
u know wat kimpossible?
this post of urs is an interesting one.
in my opinion, a man can not love u more or less becos u are a virgin. i ve a guy frd that will always tell u that a man will always have just one thing in mind the first time he approaches u - SEX. in the process of getting his wish granted he either falls in love and want u as a person for keeps or he dosnt fall at all, his wish granted and he moves on or he loses interest in the pursuit and moves on. so its really has got nothing to do wit ur being a virgin.
u see, that a woman is a virgin at a certain age agreed is a plus to a man and naturally such man would want to be the "first".
that u are a virgin dose not make u any diff from those who aint, it only means u ve stil got one thing others have lost or given a way hence you should act and live normal i.e no special dating rules and all and plz don't let anyone make u give it up until u are fully ready to do so.
am 24 and was a virgin until i was 23 and to tell u the truth i didnt have to get special dating rules to remain in a relationship. blieve me, ones a relationship gets to the point of marriage it is almost necessary for u to 'try out' wat u are going into.....i ve heard stories of men who either are impotent, too 'small'and can hardly satisfy a woman let alone impregnate them, these men will always want a relationship that is sex free, so wat happens to the woman after marriage?
so pls forget all those talk about special relationship guides 4 virgins. if u are a virgin then u shuld always ensure that u are not found in enviroments that suggests u actually want more than u are willing to offer.
i ve so much to say kimpossible but i ve got to go back to work.
merry xmas to u
hey man grweat post, i mea yawl. me, personay i desire a prtner, a friend and protector. i can get sex anyway and as far as the virgin thing, i think thats cool, but you know some of us men do not know what we want, we even cant or are often affriad to be compassionate, affectionate or benevaloent
Wonder twins :) great post. From a woman's prospective, I would respect a man who was celibate...whether it be for religious reasons or personal reasons.
Relationships shouldn't be based on sex. Sex can cloud ones judgment. How many times have we seen people stay with another person just because and this is how they put it..."the sex is good." It makes you want to slap them.
Don't get me wrong, sex is important; however a relationship should not be based on that. Concentrate on building a solid foundation first. Sex is just icing on the cake.
It takes two mature people to build a loving relationship without sex in the equation. Will it be difficult? Yes, because our hormones have a mind of their own. Is it possible? Yes.
Kimpossible, I tagged you on my blog for 8 weird things about yourself.
Long post will be back to read.
Interesting discourse...
would write a whole new post if i had to comment.
First time here (wonder why i never found this space)...Great work, Kimpossible
well damn lemme marinate on this and formulate my answer.. i'll be back.. INTERESTING indeed but I have some questions too..
Wow.
I have two perspectives on this. As a horny 24 year old, asking me to exist in a relationship where I can't have sex is asking a bit much. And I'm being 100% honest. That said, I guess it's clear that I'm more interested in immediate gratification than long term commitment. So I behave as such.
Now, from an objective standpoint, I have the utmost respect for people who choose to abstain. Your willpower alone is amazing. I think that this all comes back to the concept of being "equally yoked." No, I'm not a Christian, but it is a concept that I believe in. Being a virgin is just like anything else, you make your boundaries clear and stick to them. Whoever can't roll with it needs to roll out. Even if you were sexually active, I guarantee you'd come across your fair share of weirdos who want to "teach" you or "marry" you. Those guys make for funny stories to tell your friends, and that's it.
I would say don't overthink it. Do you. If doing you means not doing them, then so be it.
Hey, thanks for commenting on my blog. Email me (sugabelly@yahoo.com). I'm glad you like the shirts. We're having a Christmas sale that started today ($20 and below). It's going to last until midnight on Christmas Eve. Maybe you should drop by the store.
http://juvoodoo.spreadshirt.com
And no, I do not think that men should love women more or less because their virgins. It's just something men do to mess with our self esteem as women because a woman's virginity can be verified. Afterall, how many men are virgins, and how will we ever know?
Kim I don't mean to come to your blog and self promote but The Plural Thing: Spiritually Preparing for Your Soul Mate answers it all in a nutshell. I mean, in a nutshell we have to be a whole person and seek out a whole individual to couple up with. Experimenting is mostly done by people who aren't ready. Men or women looking for a conquest aren't able to handle long term, just right now. I hope I didn't ramble, but hopefully you get my point.
i have to agree with sheila. you can't build a relationship solely on sexual attraction. while i do enjoy the intimacy of physical touch, having a relationship where other things take center stage is great.
I'm loving the discourse here, giving me thoughts for future posts.
@princessdominique - not sure if you read my post earlier this week on writers, but I did intend to get to your book next year as well as Sheila's, since I can't help but see your marketing:-) Anyway, looking forward to the read. It sounds like a good book and something that I would like to share with my daughters (son too, but he's only 5).
basically, relationships should be built on friendship...and that friendship is what makes conversations easy. with the easy conversations
you can talk about whatever physical/sexual thing you feel and your stand for or against it, and you'd also be able to talk yourselves out of doing what u feel is wrong(thats if you've decieded to wait till marriage or whatever)
i think i can confidently say i want a mate not for sexual reasons, but for the companionship and all the stuffs, basically, i'd rather read a book or do something else than have sex with a guy just because...he's cute or well just because i want to and not because i'm in lurvvv!...(now i feel like i just blabbed)
hi kim.
Excellent Post Gurl, I applaud you for your ability to maintain without sex. All I can say is do what makes you happy, thats the secret.
Hi KimPossible,
It sure is a long post but very very interesting. Let me simplify things for you since you sought my opinion on the subject matter at hand. Being a virgin or not is no big deal especially in a liberated country like America. I don't think you should discuss this thing with men whom you date. Of course they will drool like a fox who is about to get his first meal. To me what is important is to practice your Christian values at all times. You do things on your own without consulting them first with God for His guidance. Of course you will fail in all your aspirations. If you have to go out with a guy, choose a well meaning Christian dude you will meet in your church. Choose one who seems to be serious about his religious convictions. Then ask the Lord if he is the guy that He intended for you. The Holy Spirit will guide you with the answers and with what you must do. Avoid guys who just want sex and who would go crazy to taste a virgin again. There's nothing wrong with waiting to get married until you indulge in sex. As a Christian, learn to live in this world but not of this world. We must live by the Spirit and not by the flesh. Be more prayerful and seek the Lord in your heart. "Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." (Psalm 37:4) It does not matter if we turn off unbelievers so long as we please the Lord. I will be praying for you, my kid sister, that the Lord will guide you into everything that you will do so that you will not stumble and fall. God bless you with the wisdom and grace of the Lord. Have a nice and wonderful holiday season. TO GOD BE THE GLORY.
The one thing that struck me right off the top of my head is that the girl in the post is facing many of the same guy/girl issues that sexually active women face.
I think she's pointing to her virginity as the cause, when in actuality, some guys are jerks whether they're getting some or not.e.g., they will still date two or three women, etc.
Celibate or not, it's important to look for people who share your same values and goals.
Oh Whoa! I must say..this was a nice break from finals!!! KIM KIM KIM....again KIM! Girl you and Mr. Rich did a great job here. Whether you are a Virgin or not..i feel once you have a relationship with God, living for the flesh is something hard to do. I'm now understanding that..I understand that so much I had to break up with my bf becuz I no longer wanted to be of my flesh but have a relationship with my soul. Some guys are understanding and others are not. And sometimes those who are not understanding at the long run respect you for that.
Now to the questions asked...I dont know how quickly you show your V-card...but if it's quick..then thats something you need to think about. Yes being a virgin is a good thing but you have snakes...yes snakes...out there who want to be the first to touch something so pure(and this goes for guys who are also virgins...some women prey on that) ...
lol to the teacher or daddy role...I don't think it's like that....you got unlike to find someone with that character...virgin or not...I believe he would have acted the same way...it’s just he’s character.
Okay so I love The Hills (lol) and there was an episode when Lauren said "There is something about those bad boys, that always makes us go bad to them." It's a woman's nature to want something that’s so bad yet so good. It's not your fault...and truth be told you should count your blessings because at this time your feelings are just hurt...what if he took your V-Card and charged it...omg....that could break someone's spirit. So I see it like this count your blesses...pick up the pieces...smile...and move on.
Okay I’m gonna stop answering the questions one by one now. Virgin or not guys are guys ... there are good ones and there a bad ones. I feel like, you feel like you have been so unfortunate because of the card you hold...please scrap that thought. There is more to you then your vagina. You are probably a well rounded woman. Smart, caring, can cook, knows the Lord and loves the Lord.... and if he can't see pass that(vagina), please give your self a gift and move on.
Date, pray and he will come...and if he is here....hold on....as long as he is worth it. Keyword...this man better be worth it if he isn't ...well like B said...to the left to the left. WE can't let people take away from our principles...because without your principles you have nothing....
p.s. if you feel I’m blunt please forgive me....but once upon a time I was that chick who lost myself, lost my principles...and that’s the worst loneliness in this world...But I understand...Girl It's you and your Lord. He will never ever, girl ever leave you alone...he as something in store for you...just gotta have patience.
Kim Kim Kim! Free your mind...lol...I truly enjoyed it. Happy Friday.
This was indeed long but it was also very interesting.
I was in a relationship with a man who was celibate by choice and we had a very good and mutually fulfilling relationship. It was difficult for me not to act on the physical aspect of my very human nature but the brother was so good at stimulating me in other ways that I soon let him be him.
On the flip side I was in a relationship with a man who was celibate because he was impotent and his issues with himself made him a withholder of ALL intimacy and I absolutely let him know in no uncertain terms that the absence of sex was not the issue it was the absence of any kind of stimulation whatsoever. I think that waiting until you are truly comfortable and sure is commendable and I wonder how many of us ladies have just "given in" because we didn't have the security in ourselves to trust that we would find a man who could find us worthy enough to wait for.
Wow, what an interesting post. Virgin, celebate, or sexually active, most people face the same issues while dating. You'll always find someone who's a jerk, there will be the one you should have held on to, and hopefully the one you do hold on to. To use your virginity as justification why you're having difficulty in the dating scene is sort of narrow minded and naive sounding. I had those same difficulties, and I made the conscious decision to be sexually active while I was dating.
I spoke to some close friends about this and they said that in some cases people want to "take" the virgin solely for the ego and power trip, but they also say that it can be hard to deal with a virgin because you know that if you sleep with him/her and the relationship doesn't work out, there is the potential for a lot of hurt feelings and guilt.
There's a lot more I want to say, but I don't want to write a whole post in your comment section.
Im Christian, but I never got to be a virgin. I was molested repeatedly as a child, sexually assaulted in school, and date-raped in college.
The church didnt help me before or after the assaults. The men who assaulted me were all church-going "Christians," one was a even a Deacon.
God didnt abandon me, though.
I am SO grateful that Ive had positive, enjoyable, hot, safe, non-felonious sexual experiences with men. It would have been nice to be a virgin or celebate, or unexperienced in anything but I never got the chance. Thank God, I took control of my own sexuality and had/ have a full life.
Im not knocking those who are celebate for religious reasons. Some people fast, abstain from alcohol, pork or beef, etc. all to become closer to God. Some abstain from sex. I think the only reason to be celebate is for spiritual reasons. More power to you. If celebacy helps you become closer to God and love yourself more, stay with it and only good will come from it.
Your virgin status is not the issue, only if you want it to be. I think virgin status is a bit over-rated if it is used as a measuring tool for character and common sense. Noble yes, but really if you are holding it as some prize, then you will always be at the mercy of slick and disrespectful men. Your worth and value isn't solely tied to what is between your, legs, but rather in my opinion, what is on your mind. Sex is an intimate act, but being intimate and sexy starts in your head. Cast your pearls before swines if you must, ut true love is about rising to the occassion for the sake of another. True love is about putting the other person's desires first. You know this and ther is no magic potion for true love. There are decent, God-fearing men out there waiting to shower you with all the love and affection you deserve, whether or not you are a virgin. I believe that...I believe it for myself and I haven't been a virgin for...
I think this was a lofty and ambitious idea, one that I love. I think you both could explore this dynamic further and keep at it.
Happy Holidays!
Love,
Babz
I am a virgin myself so I totally feel the plight of the chick in this post. I am staring at 30 and had no idea I would make it this long in the v-club. Femigog made a great point. I think for me, it’s not just being a virgin, it’s the whole intimacy factor. I’ve waited so long and experienced so little…I don’t know if a really good kiss is gonna send me to forgetting about all this waiting and ending up doing something I know I’ll regret.
In my dating relationships, I feel like I’m at a disadvantage, because holding hands or kissing or being held are all so special to me because I haven’t experienced them much, whereas those things are common place to most of the guys I date. For the most part they have been respectful and for the most part I have been uncomfortable. lol
I really fear that the older I get and the more I stay inexperienced it will be difficult to find a man who can get with that. Am I crazy to think that way? Esp since I tend to date guys in their mid 30s?
My friends fall on either side of the spectrum. The ones who are really into their faith say it’s great that I haven’t experienced a lot of the heartbreak of dating and sex outside of marriage. My other friends say they respect my stance, but they are concerned about how I’m going to handle being physical with a guy in a serious relationship. What do you guys think God would have to say to a chick in my situation?
hi kimpossible, this is a great post. a very interesting one indeed, and one that many, many people face today, whether they're Christians or not.
being a Christian, i take the stance that Mel was talking about. i've actually been a Christian and a widow for almost 22 years and haven't been with a man since my husband died. i haven't dated, but i have been interested in a few men; however, after a conversation i knew we weren't on the same page. some weren't even in the same book, so there's no use in wasting my time. if only i knew these principles and had the courage to move on when i was younger. could have spared myself lots of heartaches, and might have even remained a virgin until i did marry.
God hasn't brought whoever across my path yet (at least not that i know of), so i continue to wait. it does get lonely sometimes, but i've experienced so many mistakes in my past because i didn't know God, and went in my own ways that now i'm waiting.
men are conquerors/hunters, so a virgin is a conquest to a man. life is a game to many people and many people are players, but no one can play me unless i allow it because God says in His Word that He would not have me to be ignorant of satan's devices, and God knows what's in the heart of men. if i stay in tune with the Holy Spirit, He'll let me see the hearts as well.
if i walk in the Spirit, i'll not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. of course, lust just doesn't apply to sex, and we don't always walk in the Spirit, but we do our best to walk according to the dictates of God rather than the dictates of the world. we're in this world, but not of this world.
just came thru to say hey...will try to check the full post later. have a happy holiday if i don't "see" ya!
Biblically there are 3 words that are translated as love.
1) Eros...erotic love, sex
2) Philleo...brotherly love, friendships
3) Aggape...Godlike love, the love the One who created all has for his creation. The Love we all aspire to.
I am about to be pilloried here I believe, but sex, outside of marriage or words spoken over a couple, *shrug* do it , don't do it makes no difference.
Is God a fool? Does She not know that the body has need for physical intimacy as well as the mind (soul) and spirit?
He could have made the procreative process uncomfortable and un-enjoyable yet he added the enjoyment aspect to it as well. does a woman get pregnant every time she has sex? Why obviously not but there is an aspect to having recreational sex and orgasms that is a part of our nature created within ourselves.
Is this to say that a man or a woman should get as many notches on their bedpost as possible, no absolutely not. That would be disastrous to Philleo, that person would become known as a manwhore or womanwhore just looking for sex. a pass around party person.
Does physical intimacy have to come first before the other two "Loves"...no not really, there is no proscribed order.
The command is that when you find your mate you will become one with them and not separate from them. I find no command that a person remain celibate until that finding occurs.
Yet once you become one with someone (whether there are words spoken over you in a building or not) you are to not go farming in another's field. Why? because this then destroys the Philleo and the harms the Aggape.
By the by I know of more manwhores than I do female, yet by some of what i read here they would be the more heavily condemned of god than say a person in a a dating relationship who is having sex, well sin is sin, there are no degree's to it.
But what is sin to Kimpossible is not necessarily sin to me. That is the freedom from the law of moses and the beauty of a personal relationship with a creator who is large enough to know each human who ever lived personally.
So to the virgin, not virgin, if not done in a rape of any kind (which i DO grieve for that poster's childhood), *shrug* to me in my personal walk with God makes no difference.
Peace
mark
Kudos' to Kim and Rich! This is an excellent discussion on Sex and the single woman and the virtuous woman. Although, it's hard for me to say there is no absolute right or wrong, and the choice remains solely with the person. It's funny, i remembering attending a mentoring seminar for young ladies just this year, and one of the speakers spoke on abstinence and her walk with Christ and how and why she chose abstinence...it was a very powerful speech coming from a 16 year girl...i was with her until she made the reference that "we are like gifts, neatly packaged, with bows and trimming, beautiful...(She had a gift to show us)...then she said, but once we have sex, before marriage...(she stomped on the box, smashing it, almost destroying it)...we become like this gift, damaged goods, no longer beautiful...(but with Gods forgiveness...(she placed tape on the package, here and there until it was sealed again) we can still be a package, but not as pretty, damaged. WHOA! I'm thinking..."I'm damaged goods"...no, i don't think so...to me it was over the top...but i understood where she was going with it. I hope in your choices, or convictions that you will be happy with whatever you choose.
WOW! I am overwhelmed at the responses and glad that you guys chimed in. I first want to make it clear to everyone. The person I am speaking of in this blog is NOT me! I have been married for 9 years to my wonderful husband. One of my single friends is dealing with this in her relationship and I just wanted to hear your perspective on the topic. I know it was a long post so some of you might not have caught that this wasn't my story. You guys went for it too. I LOVE IT! Okay, here we go:
@Ms. Emmotions: Interesting perspective. "U should not find yourself in environments that suggest you want more than you are willing to offer." I think you summed it up right there. Never put yourself in a situation where a guy thinks you want more. Because you could run up on a snag and some men could totally take advantage of you. And take it verses you offering it. God forbid that would ever happen to anyone!
@Torrance Stephens: Your comment is quite refreshing. You make a good point. You can get sex anywhere. There is so much more to a relationship than just having sex. Both parties just have to be mature enough to want to work on the other intricate parts of the relationship.
@Shelia: Girrrlll, I love your perspective. Preach Preacher! I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have been married for 9 years to a wonderful man. I think one of the key things to us being together so long is that we actually like each other. We were friends for a long time before we even got into a relationship. So, that foundation you are speaking of was there and the sure foundation of our relationship is God. Sex is the icing on the cake for us. You can bake a cake...but if it's half done, you can either eat it, start all over or give it up and throw it in the trash. I think people approach relationships like that. They settle for the half baked cake(their relationship). And as time progresses they realize. Wow, we have sex, but I don't really know this dude/chick. One thing that I admire about me and husband's relationship is that at the end of the day. We may have disagreements but what brings us back together is our relationship with God one and also the fact that we genuinely like each other. We love to be around each other and like each other's company. GREAT feedback Shelia.
@30+: I am coming for you today. I love it! I am posting my 8 weird things today. LOL!
@fumosh: I am glad you found this place. You must visit more often. Especially on Fridays, because RichHouse and I will be at a blog near your with "Free Your Mind Friday"
@BK: Girl, hurry up and come back because you know I can't wait to hear your comments. I love you BK, you are so real and crazy!
@Skinny Black Chick: I love it. You started your post with "WOW!" LOL! I agree with you. I respect any woman or man who have chosen to keep themselves before marriage. I definitely wish I would have had the will power to do so before marriage. It is all about doing you and staying true to your personal convictions and whoever can't get with that...HOLLA! I promise...if you stick to your guns God will honor it and in His timing bring you the person for you. A lot of times people who keep themselves focus a lot on "I haven't gotten married because I have decided to keep myself and no one wants a man/woman like me." When in reality, my opinion is that, yes, God does have someone for you. But, it may be that your maturity level to be in a relationship is just not there yet. There are a lot of other areas in your life that you need to grow up in. In order for a good relationship to work it takes great maturity. My belief is that two people come together to fulfill God's purposes for them. So, I think that when it is time for two people to get married. He and She has done all they can do while being single and now they need someone to come into their lives and help them complete the task. Marriage is a beautiful thing. But it takes work, sacrifice and a lot of growing up!
@Sugabelly: Girl, those T-Shirts are hot! Okay, I will drop by your store. I think that women and men should be secure in themselves before entering into a relationship. We all have insecurities and we will probably have to deal with that for the rest of our lives. However, if I could get across one thing, you have to know who you are before you get married and be secure in that. Because if you don't, there will be a quick down spiral. You will lose yourself in your marriage and you will go years and years. And then finally you will discover yourself and you will want out because you feel like he/she robbed you of yourself.
@PrincessDominique: I am not offended that you plugged your book at all. Great marketing girl. So, everyone go and peep the Princess book. Thanks for shouting that out.
@Aquababie: You are so right. A relationship goes far beyond the physical. But it takes much work to tap into those other areas that are key to making a relationship work and some people just aren't ready
@Mega Rich: Yes, I'm loving the book plug. I ain't mad at ya Princess Dominique.
@Fantasy Queen: Hola Chica! No ma'am, you did not blab at all. Check out my response to Skinny Black Chick. I think that speaks to your comment in a nutshell. The bottom line is that you can get sex anywhere. But, you have to be willing to work at the other key ingredients to a relationship.
@Kawana Aminata Oliver: Hey lady bug! Thank you for comment, however, this post wasn't about me. It was for a single friend of mine who is dealing with this in her relationships. Thanks for dropping by. Keep coming back because there will be more hot topics sponsored by RichHouse and KimPossible. :)
@Mel Avila Alarilla: I always love to see your comments they are so great. This post was not about me though. I have been married for 9 years to my hubby. Because this post was so long you probably didn't catch that the post was not about me but I was sharing a story about a single friend of mine that is going through this in her relationships. But, you offered her some good advice. Because at the end of the day, you do have to holla at God and see what He wants for you and to make right decisions about engaging in different relationships.
@Summer Breeze: That's why I like you girl. You just serve the truth on a plate, sit back and cross your legs and say, "there it is!" There is no more to say to this. Other than Amen sister. You are more than right. You have to date someone with your same morals and values or it will never work because you will both be on different pages. Why take yourself through that?
@YingNYang: Hey Lady! It always good to hear from you. I love your comments. Great comments, however, this post was not about me. I was sharing a story about a single friend of mine who is going through this in her relationships. But, girl you added some great advice to this conversation. You have to accept the hand God dealt you and not regret it. Just be comfortable with who you are and it will all come together for you in your relationships. A lot of times that is easier said than done. But, it is the bottom line. Be comfortable with you and just do you.
@Femigog; Girl, HIGH FIVE! That is so true. I think what you are saying is digging beneath the surface and getting to the heart of the matter. A lot of times as women or men we tend to give in to sex and other things in our lives because of our own insecurities. This is a topic for another blog. (Make sure we get this one down RichHouse). But, we have to be willing to put ourselves on the surgery table and dig deep into our current and past issues. A lot of times we carry baggage into our relationships and it becomes chaos. As Erykah Badu said "Bag Lady You Gone Hurt Yourself." We have to check the bags at the door. When we are about to get on a plane we have to check those bags and if they weight too much we gotta pay! So, let's open our bags and really dig into our issues so that we can be healed from the inside out.
@Tasha: I agree with you. There is tremendous guilt associated with giving it up to "that person" and then it's over after that. I have definitely shared that point with my friend. Because sometimes a dude/women know the right words to say to a virgin to reel them in and once they bite that worm it's a wrap. And then you often end up hating the person you gave it up to.
@Chezniki: Hey Chezi! Yes, unfortunately there are women and men who have been robbed of their virginity at a very young age. Which BURNS me up and is another topic to discuss in another post. But, yes, I respect my friend and any other man or woman who chooses celibacy. As you stated people deny themselves of other things in life because of their convictions so why should someone who chooses to be celibate be looked at any different right?
@lovebabz: Thank you for chillin at my place for a while. I enjoyed your comments. I agree with you in that relationships should never just be built on the physical. There are so many other important things that make a relationship successful. Yes, RichHouse and I will definitely be back next Friday, so that we can all "Free our Minds." So, funny that you should say, we should keep this going. LOL! Keep coming back and we'll keep writing. :-).
@Anonymous: I am so glad that you shared your story with us. I think God would have a lot to say to what you wrote. First, I think He would say, that I got you. I am looking out for you and I hear your heart and I am going to help you through this. Secondly, I think that He would tell you to review other areas in your life where He has answered prayers and come through for you. And He would tell you this v-club status is no different. Thirdly, I think He would confirm to you that He cares about what you care about and He has your best interest at heart. He has someone for you because it is your desire to be married and experience that.
As I was saying in one of my comments earlier is that maybe the focus is more on God working on your intimacy issues. Maybe there is personal work you and God have to work on within you. A lot of times we have to ask God for help and then we may have to go and sit on someone's couch (counselor) and let it all out. A lot of times we have to be healed before we can get what God has for us on the other side. I commend you for your stance to keep yourself. I am not in your shoes but I do know that has to be hard for you. But, I am so convinced that God is going to honor it and whoever gets you will be a lucky person.
@Heiresschild: Wonderful comments. I think you hit on a key point. "It gets lonely sometimes." Again, what I am about to say is a topic that should be discussed in another post" But, I think Christians need to keep it real. I grew up in a church environment that told us "dating was of the devil, you don't date until you are ready to marry, and you don't have sex before marriage or you are going straight to hell!" My point is that Christian or Non-Christian you are tempted. I think that Christians don't like to discuss that "real" part. And the funny thing is that some are actually preaching one thing but doing another. This is not a bash Christians post either. But, I think the bottom line is that we have to be honest with God and vulnerable with Him. We have to say "Daddy, look I want to have sex. I have been having these urges, a cold shower ain't gone help me. I need you to help me in this area because I don't want to mess up!" Keep it real with God and ourselves is all I am saying. See what you started Heiresschild. Thanks for your honesty. I love it!
@CAP: Hey lady! Happy Holidays to you too.
@The Walking Man:I always love when you stop by because you always bring a different angle. I love it! Yes, I totally agree with you. At the end of the day, my friends convictions are her convictions. Some of your comments allude to what I was saying to Heiresschild. As Christians we can be very judgmental and not keep it real. And I am not saying compromise God's word, but I am saying, can we acknowledge that we are human and we go through the same things people who do not believe in God go through. So, I think at the end of it all we will all be held accountable to our actions before God.
Thank you my friends for having "real talk" on this topic. It was great! I loved it! You guys are awesome and DEF my blog fam! Come back next week cuz RichHouse and I will do it again!
Love ya'll
KimPossible
Great, great & entertaining read.
@MizRepresent: Dunno how I missed your post. But, I am glad you visited and I loved your comment. That was an interesting story. Because I was exposed to church at the age of 16. I totally get why that young lady went to that extreme. She was only doing what she has been taught. Sometimes, as Christians we can go to the "other" extreme. Her message was great and I applaud her for keeping herself. Her stance is a great one. But, everyone has made mistakes. I wonder if her parents had her out of wedlock? Whether they did or not. We are not damaged goods because of our past mistakes. God is a redeemer and He gets us back on track once we expose our issues to him and ask him to forgive us and help us. Great story. Drop by next week because we are going to keep these good conversations coming!
@Don: I am glad you found this blog interesting. Come back next week. Have a great weekend.
KimPossible
I do find it interesting how women are more scrunitized regarding sexuality. Like these purity balls where the daughters and their fathers attend. It is so skewed to me, like the girls have to vow chastity and their fathers protect their virtue. Only to teach the boys to be boys and no value on waiting.
I have never been in a relationship where sex wasn't involved. It would be a challenge. I have taken several vows of celibacy over the last 10 years, the longest being 3 years. It would be hard to be with a man I liked and was attracted to and not have sex.
As for the example Miz gave, that is an extreme way of elliciting fear and shame. Don't we already after enough erroneous hang-ups about sex as women in society.
@Shai: Yes, their are a lot of hang-ups regarding woman and sex in society. Thanks for dropping by. Keep in touch.
KimPossible
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